S5E6: Julia Schemmer
In this episode, Hayley and Amy talk with puppeteer and puppetry advocate Julia Schemmer about keeping the art form of theatrical puppetry visible and vibrant, the importance of apprenticeship for learning a craft and creating opportunities for emerging talent, being at peace with where you are in transitional moments, and more. Scroll down for episode notes and transcript!
Episode Notes
Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews
Guest: Julia Schemmer
Music: Chloe Geller
Episode Resources:
Best of Broadway Puppetry Halloween Spectacular at 54 Below
Glorious Ladies of Puppetry (GLOP)
Trailblazers of the Week:
Burnout by Emily and Amelia Nagoski
Guest Bio:
Julia Schemmer (she/her) is a puppeteer, producer, and pal based in New York City! She’s the founder of Puppetry on Broadway, a collective of puppeteers, fabricators, and designers working on, off, and around Broadway. Select production credits include Broadway: A Beautiful Noise, Back to the Future, Lempicka, MJ, Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. TV: American Idol, The Tonight Show, Late Night with Seth Meyers, Saturday Night Live, The Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Schemmer holds a BA from Wilmington University in Communications and Marketing.
Find Julia Online:
Follow Puppetry on Broadway on Instagram
Visit Puppetry on Broadway’s website
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Episode Transcript
(Music)
Hayley: Hello beautiful people, and welcome back to the Women & Theatre Podcast! We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews. Grab a cozy beverage and join us as we talk to women and gender-expansive folks about their experiences at the intersection of womanhood and theatre.
Hayley: On the pod, we cultivate open conversations across identities and professional roles…
Amy: We look for opportunities to support one another in growing our careers…
Hayley: And we pool our collective wisdom to build the equitable theatrical spaces of the future.
(Music)
Hayley: Hey girl, hey!
Amy: What a way to bring us in!
Hayley: Do we wanna give folks a little life update before we Roses and Thorn?
Amy: Yeah! Well, I think that the listeners would love to hear about the amazing production that you just worked on, Hayley.
Hayley: Okay, I’ll go first. I was gonna ask you to do it, but I'll speak.
I was the assistant director on a new musical called Life After at the CAA Ed Mervish Theater. I was assisting the brilliant genius Annie Tippe on this new musical by a genius group of women. It was written by a genius woman herself, Britta Johnson, book, music, and lyrics. And then Ann Yee is the choreographer, who is also brilliant and I have always looked up to her. And Lynne Shankel, a former Women & Theatre interviewee, was the music supervisor. So just, like, a team of badass women. It's a brilliant new musical about a 16-year-old girl who loses her father and her grief journey and her… It's a coming of age story. And I really had a wonderful time.
And I've been here in Toronto, which is my hometown. So it's been really special, because almost all of my professional work has been in New York. So it's the first time that I've gotten to do a big professional contract in my hometown. So that was pretty special. And for those following along with my journey with my spouse, I actually got to be with them for three months, so that was really special also. And still here, and I'll be heading back to the city soon, but that's what I've been up to while we were on hiatus.
Amy: I just wanna say that I'm so proud of you, Hayley, and so happy for you. What a full circle moment. I love that for you.
Hayley: Enough about me, Amy.
Amy: Never. Never enough.
Hayley: Let’s talk about you!
Amy: So I've been keeping things moving on the home front, which has been awesome. And I wanna give a giant shout out to our amazing Women & Theatre team that have really stepped up and been so supportive and really helped me keep this project moving along while Hayley's been out on this contract. So thank you, Beth. Thank you, Sylvia. Thank you, Ally. Thank you, Courtney. We literally could not do this work without you, and we are so, so, so appreciative that you're part of this journey with us. Yay.
Let me think. What are my exciting things? I feel like I've got some exciting momentum on my shows. My show To the Lighthouse, my collaborator Julie and I are doing a developmental reading this summer at the American Musical and Dramatic Academy SummerFest. So we're really excited to put the show up with a group of really terrific students, and we're gonna learn a lot and do a bunch of rewrites, and it's gonna be fantastic.
We're also having our very first virtual reading of CYCLES, which is a new original musical that I'm working on with Kat Zimmerman, fabulous composer in LA. It is an original show, it's a love letter to people who have abortions and the people who care for them. And - it's funny, To the Lighthouse, we have been developing a lot within a writer community, specifically the Musical Theatre Writing Collective. And so we've had a lot of other eyes and ears on the show in a way that's been super helpful. And with CYCLES, it's been more like the two of us writing, and we haven't had as much opportunity to share work from it. So I'm so excited to get a room full of people whose opinions we trust. And yeah, just start getting some feedback on the work we've been doing, 'cause I think it's really, really good.
Hayley: Yeah, I’m psyched for you. It's awesome.
Amy: Thank you!
Hayley: Now that we did the life update, I think it's a good moment to do some Roses and Thorns.
Amy: My Rose for this week is I saw a terrific new musical last week. So last week, I saw the new musical All the World's A Stage, which is Adam Gwon’s new show at Theater Row. It will have finished its run by the time this airs, but that's okay. It was one of the best things I've seen in a long time. And it was especially special to me because Adam Gwon is a dear mentor of mine who, like, taught me everything I know about songwriting. And I'm so appreciative for his mentorship and his friendship, and it was so cool to see this work of his.
What I loved about it was: 1) that it was the first time that Adam wrote the book for a musical. He's a songwriter guy, and it was his first book. And you couldn't tell, like, it was so tight and it was funny and it was endearing and heartwarming. And the other thing that I loved about it is that it got into some really complex issues. It is a show that deals with homosexuality in evangelical Christian communities in the United States. That's a big topic that is very relevant for a lot of people across the country. And I thought he just did such a terrific job of presenting it as the complex, nuanced issue that it is. And like, painting everyone involved in the story as a full, complete human who is not a hero, not a monster, just nuanced, real people all trying to do our best and sometimes being at odds with each other because of it. I can't say enough good things.
Hayley: I just wanna say too, for our early-career writers who are listening, Adam has also been a wonderful mentor to me. He's an amazing teacher. So if you're in New York City, or he also teaches online sometimes…
Amy: He teaches online a lot, yeah.
Hayley: He teaches lyric writing. Especially if you're a beginner and you wanna, like, start from somewhere and learn from someone who is such a kind soul and such a wonderful teacher, please find a class with Adam. Not a woman in theatre, but a great human in theatre.
Amy: Yeah, so that's my Rose. And my Thorn is the transitions right now, the transition of it all. In my personal life, in my career, it just feels like there's a lot up in the air and a lot of transitions. You ever feel like you're just in this space where you're… Like, you kind of know where you're coming from. You're not quite sure where you're going. You're not quite sure, necessarily, where you are in the middle of it all. That's kind of how I'm feeling. I'm swimming through the muck, so that's my Thorn. Which will be a Rose eventually, 'cause it's all learning, right? So what are your Rose and Thorn, Hayley?
Hayley: Well, my Thorn is the same, so I kind of wanna echo. No, seriously. I mean, I've been talking a lot - I think any of my friends who've had coffees with me or calls with me recently have heard me say at least once - it’s a really transient moment for me right now. It sounds like it's a transient moment for you, Amy. I know a lot of people are feeling the transitions at this moment. It sort of snuck up on me, and I didn't expect it. Like, I was thinking a lot about this contract, and then what was gonna be after that was unclear to me. And I have some other things coming up that I'm excited about, but I just don't know what my life is gonna look like.
My lease is ending in July. I don't know what the state of the world is gonna be. It's impacting my decision making in a way that I wasn’t totally expecting at the top of this year, and it's sort of been weighing on me. So it's sort of a big Thorn. I'm trying to be present and to accept that this is a moment of transition. But I'm struggling with that. It's hard, and I'm a person who depends a lot on my passions and my drive and my ideas about the future. And I don't know what the future looks like right now. And I think it's revealing some of my flaws and some of the things that I need to work through as a human. And that makes me feel really unsettled. So that's my Thorn.
My Rose is honestly that I'm getting to spend so much time with my spouse. My show is wrapping up now. By the time this airs, it will have closed. I'm still kind of engaging with the production, helping with understudy stuff, which has been a joy. And now that I'm finished, before I head back to the city or to my next thing, for once, I sort of have a minute. And we're getting to spend some actual, like, quality time together without every other stressor in our lives being present. And that's really rare for us these days.
Amy: Yeah, what a gift.
Hayley: Yeah, it's a gift. I'm trying to just sort of like settle into the joy of that, of rest and of being able to look at my partner, like, have a conversation over a glass of wine and not have to talk about what we're doing tomorrow or what needs to get done as much. It's like a really, really needed and nice change of pace for me. So that's my Rose.
Amy: Family is the best of all possible roses. So today, I'm so excited because we are talking with Julia Schemmer, who popped into our inbox with a...
Hayley: This was a real slide into the DMs, and we were like “Yeah!”
Amy: It was! And I’m so happy about it!
Hayley: We were like hell, yeah. It was a yes for us, yeah.
Amy: Yeah, she really piqued my interest, I'll tell you that, because Julia is a puppeteer and co-founder of Puppetry on Broadway, which is a collective of puppeteers working in theatre. And puppetry, let me tell you, listeners, is a part of this industry that Hayley and I know nothing about,
Hayley: Absolutely nothing.
Amy: So we're so excited to dive into that and, like, learn a whole bunch from her.
Hayley: Yeah, I'm really excited to ask her about how womanhood intersects with puppetry, if at all. And curious about, I imagine it's probably a male-dominated field, but I'm not really sure. So, like, excited to talk to her about how those things intersect, how she found her way into this. So I'm looking forward to sharing that and uplifting for folks. Maybe if there are those of you who are listening who are interested in puppetry, who are just theatre people who are curious and wanna know more, directors out there who might wanna engage puppeteers, producers who might wanna engage puppeteers…
Amy: This one's for you. Yeah!
Hayley: So let's chat with Julia.
Amy: Let's do it.
(Musical transition)
Hayley: In this episode, we speak with Julia Schemmer. Julia Schemmer is a puppeteer, producer, and pal based in New York City. She's the founder of Puppetry on Broadway, a collective of puppeteers, fabricators, and designers working on, off, and around Broadway. Select production credits include: for Broadway, A Beautiful Noise, Back to the Future, Lempicka, MJ, and Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. TV credits include American Idol, The Tonight Show, Late Night with Seth Meyers, Saturday Night Live, and the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Julia holds a BA from Wilmington University in Communications and Marketing.
Amy: Hello, hello, beautiful people! Hello Julia, and welcome to Women & Theatre!
Julia: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.
Amy: Yay, we're happy to have you here! Could you please start us off by sharing your pronouns and telling us a little about what you do in theatre?
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. So my pronouns are she/her, and I'm one of the co-founders and producers of a group called Puppetry on Broadway. We're a collective of puppeteers and fabricators and designers who work on, off, and around Broadway.
Hayley: Amazing, Julia. That's so cool. Can you tell us a little bit about what's inspiring you and lighting you up right now?
Julia: Ooh, that is a great question. I feel like, right now, being in New York and working in theatre is such an exciting time. Like, the Tony nominations just came out. There's new shows opening. It's been such an energizing time, and I've been really trying to be intentional with taking time to see shows.
I just saw Dead Outlaw, and I haven't stopped thinking about that. So it's really just a beautiful time for creative work being produced on Broadway, but also off-Broadway. And some of our community theatres are producing really experimental, exciting work that has just been really filling my cup lately.
Amy: I love that. That's fantastic. So we're gonna do our fun little flash round of questions. So these are speak, don't think, first thing that pops into your mind. So, Julia, if you were an animal, what animal would you be?
Julia: I think I'd be a sloth, because they're adorable. And also they're kinda like, taking it slow. They're here for the vibe. Like, that's the first thing that comes to my mind. And they're - like, who doesn't love a sloth?
Hayley: Okay, love it. Julia, what's your weirdest hobby?
Julia: Ooh. I feel like puppetry kind of goes along with that. When I had to explain to my parents that I wanted to pursue puppetry, it was a very interesting conversation of “...that's what you wanna do?” But yes, they’ve both been so supportive, and I feel like puppetry has been this weird, wonderful art form that I somehow found myself in, and I love it.
Hayley: Awesome.
Amy: I love that your weirdest hobby is also your career. That's fabulous.
Julia: Yeah, exactly.
Amy: Is there a quote or a mantra that's speaking to you right now?
Julia: Ooh. I love the quote - it's actually a line from Merrily We Roll Along that has been, like, guiding me this year. It's “Tend your dreams. Dreams take time.” I literally have it written on my laptop right now, like a little sticky note on my laptop. It's just, it's so good.
Hayley: What is your favorite play or musical, Julia?
Julia: My favorite musical is Godspell. My dad did the lighting for my church every year, and we'd do that show, and so it just has a really special place in my heart.
Amy: That’s so nice! They do Godspell every year? That's so cute, I love that.
Julia: Yeah, they no longer do, but growing up, they would do that production every Easter, which is really sweet.
Amy: That's so cool.
Hayley: So fun and silly. I love it.
Amy: Yeah, cool church! I love this intersection of church and theatre. It's beautiful. Julia, what is your song of the moment? What are you listening to right now?
Julia: I've been really into Chappell Roan and her new song, “The Giver.”
Hayley: Ugh, so good. What a banger.
Julia: Yeah.
Hayley: Cool. Okay. Well, thanks for playing along with the flash round. Now that we're warmed up with that, let's chat some more and get into the meat of things. So tell us about you, Julia. How did you come to puppetry?
Julia: Yeah, oh my gosh. When I think about my journey into puppetry, it feels like a lot of happy accidents that kind of got me from Point A to Point B. And puppetry was always the thing that I found along my journey, that I would revisit and fall in love with and, like, has comforted me. So in college, I did an internship at a place called the Jim Henson Company, and they are the company that started the Muppets and Fraggle Rock and Labyrinth.
And at the time, I was studying marketing and I needed an internship, and I saw this listing. I was like, “I'm just gonna apply and see what happens.” Like, I grew up loving the Muppets and everything that they stand for, and so I applied and got an interview and was accepted. And that internship really changed my life, because, as someone who loves theatre, I didn't always see a place for me in theatre. Like, I am not really a performer. I don't do too much tech work, but it felt like admin in the arts was something that I was starting to connect and put together as a career and as something that I could add value in. And so I worked in their PR department. It was 2020, so I was on the studio lot for about three months, and then it turned remote.
And during that time, I just started to meet puppeteers and get to hear their story and get really energized and inspired by it. And flash forward, a year later, I moved to New York and started immersing myself in Broadway. And at that time, Life of Pi was opening on Broadway and I started kind of reconnecting that love of puppetry. It feels like puppetry is the thing that has kind of met me at every stage of my journey, and I'm super grateful for that.
Hayley: How did Puppetry on Broadway, your company, come to be? Tell us the origin story.
Julia: So like all my favorite things, it was a project started by all my friends. At the time, Life of Pi was opening on Broadway. We had some friends who were in the show and we really wanted to support it. So we were like, “What if we just buy a bunch of group rate tickets and invite everyone we know to see the show, and then we'll talk about the puppets after?” And it was just kind of like a really organic idea of like, “We're gonna try this, and we're gonna see if people show up and we're going to build off of it.” So we ended up doing that. We sold out at that event. And after, the cast, the audience, we all went to a bar right next to the theatre, and we were just, like, building community with each other. It was, you know, industry puppeteers talking to puppet fans. And we were realizing that we were really on the brink of something special here because theatrical puppetry, historically, has gone really uncredited in the industry. And so to create a space where people could connect and just organically exist together and build that community, we were like, “We're onto something here.”
And so for a while, we were just kinda like letting the idea marinate and figure out where we could go from there. And as it started to evolve, we started to get people really interested in what we were doing. We would release these puppetry deep dives on previous shows about, like, what their puppets were. And we started to get a really organic sense of community from that. And here we are. I mean, that was two years ago when Life of Pi was running on Broadway. And to see where it's grown since then has been really beautiful and special.
Amy: Yeah. That organic community building, that's fantastic. Tell us a bit about what you're working on creatively at the moment, whether it's you or Puppetry on Broadway or a combination. What are you excited about?
Julia: So in January, Puppetry on Broadway did our first solo show at 54 Below, and it was a really special evening. We sold out the venue, and it brought together puppeteers from all different shows. So we had puppeteers from Avenue Q and Lion King and Little Shop of Horrors all coming together to create this cabaret. And it felt like, if Broadway had created a puppet slam, that's what our show felt like. Puppet slams are these events in our community where puppeteers will get together, and it's almost like a talent show for puppetry. It's really fun. And we come up with these, like, little bits or little acts, and we perform them and workshop them. And they're usually over at puppet conferences. We have different puppet festivals around the country where we work on puppet slams. And so to bring that idea to Broadway was really special, because that's where a lot of us started. I mean, Frank Oz and Jim Henson met working at a puppet festival together. So like, it's a sacred space for puppetry. And so to bring that idea into a Broadway context was really exciting and such a beautiful night of unity.
And we're coming back to 54 Below! We're doing a show in October, it's the Best of Broadway Puppetry, Halloween Spectacular. So we're putting a Halloween twist on things, bringing out some spooky puppets. It's gonna be really fun.
Amy: My gosh.
Hayley: Well, you know what to do, listeners. So Julia, do you have a creative mission for your puppetry work? For your creative work in general?
Julia: Yeah! Oh my gosh, that's such a great question. Puppetry on Broadway's mission is to keep the art form of theatrical puppetry visible and vibrant. And so, what that looks like is that we're trying to spotlight things that have not historically been spotlighted by shows. So we just released a 10-page analysis on the puppetry of Death Becomes Her, because that's what keeps knowledge held between our communities. So we don't really have puppetry cast albums. We don't have puppetry cast recordings, but talking about the puppetry in a show and how it's done and who makes this, that's like our industry's cast album, almost. That's how we transfer information. And so we're doing a lot of that, crediting puppeteers and designers and fabricators to make sure that they get the love and appreciation that we wanna see.
But also transferring knowledge. So figuring out: What can the downtown arts community learn from the Broadway community, but what can the Broadway community learn from the downtown arts community? And what does that transfer look like? Also, we do a lot of work between - from Broadway show to Broadway show. So we're finding that Broadway shows will often hire incredibly talented Broadway singers and dancers and expect them to become Broadway puppeteers almost overnight. Which historically has been done, but without the support of, like, a puppet captain or a puppet director to help ease them into that role. And so we're trying to do a lot of advocacy work surrounding that, and showing the benefits of a puppet director and bringing in those training and resources.
So right now what we're doing is kind of like a multi-pronged approach. We're both trying to, like, find materials that service puppet fans and that educate people that there's puppetry in the show and you should go see that show. But we're also trying to support Broadway puppeteers, and make sure that they feel supported going into their eight-performance week, and making sure that they have the resources and tools to be successful in their role.
Amy: Yeah, that's fabulous. I love all the different things you're working on. Let's dive into the niche for a moment. What is your vision for having, like, a resource documenting puppetry in shows? Like, what would that look like, and what would make it useful?
Julia: So we're actually kind of working on a version of that right now. I have a Google Sheet where I've been cataloging every show that has ever used puppetry and figuring out who designed those, who puppeteered them, and also like, where are those puppets now?
Hayley: Puppets: Where are they now?
Julia: I know, exactly.
Amy: It's like a Behind the Music documentary, yeah.
Julia: Exactly. I feel like I'm doing true crime, but it's puppets, like puppet research. But the thing that's unique about our art form is that a lot of puppets are made out of felt and foam. And so, over time, they disintegrate. And so preservation is a really important thing for our community. And so if the puppets are, like, put in a storage box upstate, that's not necessarily ideal for future generations to know that there were puppets in the show.
So it's been a lot of watching theatre - which I'll never complain about, I love doing that - and also just trying to connect the dots of: Who are these people that we should know about, and where are these puppets? We have different museum partners as well, across the country. So like, how can we bring them to a museum for preservation or connect them with fabricators that can repair those puppets? So it's a lot of that.
(Musical transition)
Hayley: I wanna switch gears a little bit and talk about womanhood and how this intersects with puppetry. I'm so curious to hear you talk about how womanhood fits into your identity and your theatrical work.
Julia: Oh, that is such a good question. When I think about womanhood, I think about community, and I think about… Like, puppetry is such an intimate community already, but female puppeteers have their own kind of tight community. There's an incredible group called GLOP. They're the Glorious Ladies of Puppetry, and they were started during the pandemic, because there really wasn't a female puppetry group to find community in. And so I'm a proud part of GLOP.
Puppetry is also such a mentorship-based profession. Like, a lot of puppeteers entered this industry by knowing another puppeteer and going under their wing. And so, when we think about how to get more female puppeteers in this industry, it's important that we know: Who are those female puppeteers? And how can we bring more people into our community? And so yeah, I think puppetry is such an intimate community as it is. But like, bringing more women into the conversation is something that is continually something that I'm thinking about too.
Amy: Fantastic. I love that it’s called GLOP. It's interesting - that apprenticeship model, which has historically been a big part of lots of areas of theatre - I feel like it historically has just not served women, because women are so in the minority in certain areas. And then when a woman is allowed to be in this sphere, I feel like [there] historically has been a stigma of “Oh, well, you can't, you know, choose another woman to mentor or you're playing favorites” or whatever. It's interesting to see that that carries over to puppetry as well, because it's - like, in some ways it's such a great way to learn an art form, right? But then, yeah, who does that leave out? And I mean, we're talking about women, but also, you know, people who are not white, people who are any sort of underrepresented community probably struggle a bit with that.
Julia: Yeah, I agree completely. And I think getting to see a female puppeteer in that representation just shows you what's possible. And it really wasn't until I saw Life of Pi, the head puppeteer is a woman named Betsy Rosen. And it was my first time seeing a female puppeteer on stage. It took until 2023 for me to see a female puppeteer taking on this massive puppet and this complex puppetry. It's just really special to see that on stage, and I walked away from that show feeling so inspired.
And then a couple months later, I met a woman named Lynn Hippen who, in Little Shop's original production at the Orpheum Theatre was the Audrey II puppeteer. And so it’s just, it's so incredible and affirming to meet the women who have paved the way for puppetry. Who have paved the way then and who are paving the way now and show you what's possible. And it just, it excites me.
Hayley: Totally. I also have hope - just to come back to what you were saying, Amy, about the apprenticeship model historically leaving people out - women are such good gatherers of community. And so I'm really excited, now that we're seeing this push and shift for more representation across the board in theatre, I'm really excited to see the trickle-down effect of that. And to see how - and I'm already seeing it in my own circles - how we all bring each other in to make the rooms that we wanna see. Groups like GLOP are a great example of that.
Amy: Totally. Julia, what is a thing that you wish people knew about puppetry that you feel like is under-reported?
Julia: I would love to see the shift from puppetry being viewed as, like, this niche thing that only a couple people fall into and more appreciated as something that has been, like, an early part of the fabric of theatre. Puppetry is so widespread. Sometimes when we say, “Oh, it's a niche thing,” it leaves people out of the conversation. Even right now, I was researching all the shows on Broadway using puppets, and all of the most successful shows on Broadway right now have either puppets in them or rely on puppet influences to tell their story.
Like, we think about Wicked and the puppets in that. The Lion King, of course. Chicago kind of relies on marionette influences in the way that they stage their numbers. And so, I think that opening it up a little bit and saying Puppetry is in a lot of these shows right now, there are more people in the puppetry community than what we might think to be puppeteers… I think that allows us to grow our community and grow support for this art form.
Hayley: And I love the idea of bringing more experts in. I mean, we've seen in so many different ways how this industry, as we're working towards a more equitable space, are choosing to bring in experts in, like, intimacy, for example. We've long had fight captains and things, but instead of saying like, “Oh, we're all gonna figure out this new art form,” why not welcome folks into the space to be a resource and to contribute artistically? As opposed to assuming that we'll just, like, figure it out, it's like an afterthought. How much more rich art could be made in the collaboration with more puppeteers? It's really cool to think about how that could evolve.
Julia: I love what you're saying about bringing people from the art form into the show, 'cause it, it makes such a big difference. Puppetry on Broadway has been working a lot with Boop, and for their puppeteer, they brought in Phillip Huber, who is just, like, such a legend in the marionette puppetry community. He's been doing this work for decades, and he built the puppet that he's using. But he also brought along two understudies and covers who are making their Broadway debut, who have been working in the downtown puppetry community, who are now able to, like, use their experience on the Broadway stage. So I think that that's a really beautiful example of honoring the art form. And Phillip Huber is one of our generation's best puppeteers. And so, to get to see him in this Broadway role while also bringing along two other people for the ride of learning Broadway puppetry and applying the work that they've been doing in our communities for so long, I just think that's a really beautiful blend of getting to do all those things.
Amy: Well, that's like, apprenticeship at its best, right? Like, that's the vision. So speaking of visions, what is your grand vision for Puppetry on Broadway? Where do you see it in, like, 5 or 10 years?
Julia: Such a fun question, 'cause I'm always asking myself that too. When we started Puppetry on Broadway, Life of Pi was like the only show on Broadway that was new and was using puppets. And now, it feels like there are so many shows on Broadway right now that opened this season that are using puppets, which is incredible. I mean, Death Becomes Her, Dorian Gray uses puppets, Maybe Happy Ending. There's just been a lot of shows that use puppetry in them, which wasn't the case when we were starting this organization two years ago.
And so I think that a dream for us would be able to, like, be involved with the beginning conversations of when a show is transferring, of like, how do you talk about puppetry to audiences that wanna see the show? Developing more robust programming and social media content around the puppetry in the show. We love seeing it at the forefront of a show's marketing. If it plays an important role in the story, we want it to be highlighted. And so, getting to dissect how to talk about puppetry to audiences from puppeteers who kind of speak that language. So we'd love to be able to do more of that, of getting in those conversations early on instead of when a show is open and we're trying to catch up and figure out the best way to go about things.
Hayley: Julia, if you could make one change to the theatre industry, what would it be?
Julia: Oh, man. There's so many different things. I think I would love to see the conversation shift from the Tony nominations being like, the… Like, there's so much at stake when Tony nominations come out, and I think that that puts a lot of shows and a lot of the people working on those shows in really vulnerable places. And so, I'd love just to see this step away from all of the focus being on the Tonys. I think that it's an incredible way to highlight the incredible season that we've had. But I've also been on the backend of seeing people stressed, really stressed, when those nominations come out. And so, just a better way to think about performers and crew and their mental health when those nominations come out, and making sure that they have the support system in place. I'm wondering if there's other ways to kind of garner support for shows and celebrate those shows, but also not making it be this thing where shows are dependent on it.
Amy: Yeah, and where shows are in such direct competition with one another, especially since… I mean, all the shows on Broadway right now are so different from each other. It very much feels like comparing apples and oranges, yeah. Julia, can you talk a bit about how you balance your puppetry work and your creativity with the rest of your life?
Julia: Yeah, that's a really great question. Puppetry on Broadway is such a fun passion project and I love it, but I also work full-time in TV and film, and so, sometimes that looks like working 12-hour days for, like, a week straight. Or you know, going to different cities and having to work on set for a while.
And so, I think for me… I have a really wonderful team that I'm working with. Our co-producers - we're a team of four: Lauren Flack, Evan Margolis, and Peter Charney and myself. And we all work on different areas of the organization. So we all kind of specialize in our own different things. Peter is our organization’s resident director, so he helps us with our live shows. Lauren Flack helps us a lot with our organization's structure and grant funding and things like that. And then Evan also supports our programming. And so with the four of us, it's really nice to be able to divide tasks and figure out what we want our focus to be. Especially in our organization, where we're trying to hit so many different touch points and serve so many different perspectives of puppetry to different people. So that's really helpful, I could not do what Puppetry on Broadway is doing without them.
And then, in terms of my own general life - this year, I've really been challenging myself to take my days off. I've been just trying to, like, be more thoughtful about that, of like, using the Do Not Disturb feature on my phone or, you know, putting an email reminder and just really getting to fully take that day off. I'm from California, so I spent two weeks back home in February, and that was really great.
That's what sustains our work, right? When we're well rested, we can do this work well. And so I'm trying to do more of that. We're working on it. Historically, I've not always been the best at that, but this year, I've been challenging myself more to take care of myself as a person and also as a theatre maker.
Hayley: I love that you called it a challenge, because it is a challenge. Like, it really is. I don't think that many of us folks find ourselves in theatre because we're not interested in working.
Amy: That is true. I mean, we have to fill our cups so that we can have that creative energy. 'Cause the work that we do takes a different kind of energy than the work that a lot of people do, right? It requires replenishment. And so we need that rest.
Julia: Wow, definitely. And I think about my early career too, where I was working so much, and I’m happy I was, like, it was energizing work. But I'd get into the rooms that I had been dreaming of getting in, and then I wasn't showing up 100% of the way I wanted to show up because I was so tired. And I didn't realize it at the time.
It's how we keep our work sustainable. When you mentioned, “Where do you see Puppetry on Broadway in five years?”, I think that what keeps Puppetry on Broadway around for five years is the way that we take care of ourselves and take care of each other. And when we do that, we can show up as the person that we wanna show up as, instead of, like, a tired or burnt-out version of ourselves.
Amy: That's so true, and so resonant with a lot of what we talk about at Women & Theatre about how we build advocacy groups that are sustainable.
Hayley: Yeah, and it's tricky too, because you're rewarded when you work extra hard. Do you know what I mean? That's the hard thing that I'm trying to be more rigid with myself about, is I am in the habit of working myself super hard, because it does have benefits, like, there are rewards for that. There are lots of drawbacks too, but the industry kind of glorifies being burnt out and work being your whole life. It's changing and it's shifting, but it's long been the way, so it's this interesting balance.
I ran into this a lot on my last contract, where I felt like, in order to do my best work, I needed to rest, but in order to do my best work, I also needed to be working more hours in the day than I had. And so, balancing those two things is so hard, you know? 'Cause you're gonna do more efficient work if you're rested. But I also felt like if I didn't do this work now, when's it gonna happen? And then I won't be ready when I'm needed in a particular way. So it's tricky.
Julia: I totally resonate with what you're saying. And I think too, as women we're so used to having to take on multiple roles and do all the things and create the spaces that we don't have. And so, I think with that has come a lot of, like, for me personally, I've had to unlearn a lot of that and learn how to delegate to others. And it's so nice now to have a team that is so supportive. But I think that also comes from previous moments where it has been all women trying to wear multiple hats and do multiple things, so I definitely agree with that.
(Musical transition)
Amy: Julia, you are doing amazing work and also, you're like, right at the beginning of this journey, and it's so exciting. Is there advice that you would share with a younger version of yourself or with up-and-coming puppeteers that you would want them to know?
Julia: So I didn't really mention this when we were talking about finding my way in this industry, but my background actually comes from disaster relief. In undergrad, I took a gap year - there was historic flooding that happened in Louisiana, and at the time I was in California. I heard about this when I was working in a residence hall, and the TV was on and the news was going on, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I have to do something.”
And I found an organization that would cover your flight and your housing and your meals and just, in turn, for you to volunteer. And I was like, “Well, now I don't have an excuse, right?” It was my summer break, and so I went out to Louisiana for two weeks, and I fell in love with it and I kept coming back. Every school break that I had, I would come back. And then I just decided, “I'm just gonna focus on this full time”. At the time, Hurricane Harvey hit, and the devastation was so widespread and heartbreaking. And I decided to take a year - one year turned into a couple years, and I ended up spending time doing disaster relief in Louisiana, Texas, Puerto Rico, helping rebuild homes. And we actually got to work on rebuilding a performing arts school, and it was, like, such a beautiful experience and it changed my life forever.
And I always think about that experience, and it feels like a pivot from what I've done before, but it really was, like, the catalyst. Like, because I've worked in disasters, it feels like I'm able to apply that to what I do in production, of like, figuring out who those people are and partnerships and community building. But in that moment though, I was really hard on myself, because I took a gap year off. I felt a little lost because there were a lot of different personal things going on in my life at the time, and I just didn't really know what I was doing. But I was moving forward, and I was just doing that thing and figuring it out later.
And so, I wish I could tell myself that it's not a pivot, actually. And it was honestly, like, the best thing that I could have done for myself. And so, when we find ourselves in these different situations that we may not have envisioned ourselves in, or feel like we have the qualifications to be in, or, you know, all these things that get in our head… Like, really one experience leads to another.
I draw on that disaster relief experience, now in my career, probably the most of anything else I've ever done. 'Cause I'm able to think about, like, construction terms when we're figuring out how to load in a theatre, or like… There's things that I draw on that I would've never known if I didn't take that leap. Every experience really leads to the next, and I think that you can navigate being kind of in the in-between of what your next step is by just honoring what you're doing in that time and seeing where it leads to next.
Hayley: Julia, I really needed to hear that.
Amy: I really needed to hear that too, right now.
Hayley: I just wanna underline that again - honoring where you are right now in transitions, in times of change. I think that there's a lot of people who are dealing with a lot of change right now and a lot of fear and a lot of uncertainty. And I think that the wisdom that you just shared, of honoring this moment that you're in, I think is a really good one. So I just wanted to underline that one more time for our listeners, and honestly, for ourselves.
Amy: And for ourselves! Yes. Thank you.
Hayley: Yeah, that's really, really beautiful.
Julia: Thank you, yeah.
Hayley: I love it.
Julia: It was such a transformative experience. And I had to learn too, that the day that you plant the seed is not the day that you water the fruit. So while I was doing all this work, I had no idea that I would later rely on it, living in a different city and doing a completely different industry. You know, it's really crazy.
Amy: I think that's my new mantra: The day you plant the seed is not the day you water the fruit. That's stunning. I love that.
Hayley: I love it too.
Amy: I know! These pearls!
Hayley: Love it. This has been such a great conversation. Before we let you go, I wanna ask you: What are you most proud of in your life and in your work so far?
Julia: What I'm most proud of in my life so far… Last year, I had the opportunity to come back to a program that I participated in when I was in high school. It was called the Disney Dreamers Academy. It's an essay contest, essentially, and you write essays about your dreams, and then the folks at Disney read them, and they pick a hundred high school students to come and learn about your dreams and participate in mentorship and also experience the magic of being at Walt Disney World. And you get to go with your parent, and it's an incredibly transformative and important week. And it really, like, changed my life when I got to be there. I participated in that program in 2014 and I got to go with my dad.
And then in 2024, I came back as an alumni speaker and mentor. And it was so surreal to be back in that space and to get to speak of this program and the amazing ways it changed my life. And I think that that's continually something I'm so proud of. And I got to go with my dad. We really bonded during that experience, and before my alumni trip last year, two weeks before, my dad got diagnosed with Parkinson's and dementia. And it was really a challenging time. And so to get to go back to that program and tell him all about it, it was just, it was full circle for me. It was a really special experience.
Amy: Oh my gosh. That’s lovely.
Hayley: Beautiful. That’s beautiful, Julia.
Amy: I’m gonna cry. Yeah, that’s wonderful, thank you for sharing that.
Julia: Of course!
Hayley: Great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and reaching out to us and making this connection. It's so beautiful to get to know you and hear your story, and I'm sure our listeners are just as excited to hear about everything that you've shared today. So thank you so much.
Before we run away, I just wanna ask you - if folks wanna stay connected with you and the work that you're doing through Puppetry on Broadway, I'm curious where they can find you on the internet?
Julia: My personal Instagram is @msjuliadarling. And then Puppetry on Broadway is on Instagram as well, we're @puppetryonbroadway. Linked in our Instagram bio is our website, where you can sign up for our newsletter and hear about future events as well, what we're up to.
Hayley: Awesome. Thank you so much, Julia.
Julia: Thank you both. It was really great to get to connect with you, and thank you for the important work you're doing. This was such a treat.
(Musical transition)
Amy: What? Continuity, what?
Hayley: So full disclosure, listeners, we did not have a moment to record a post-interview segment on the day that we chatted with Julia. But we're here now. I'm so excited that you all got to hear from Julia Schemmer. This interview was such a delight. I feel like my big takeaway is about, “The day that you plant the seed is not the day that you water the fruit.”
Amy: Yeah. I love that.
Hayley: …was a big takeaway for me. I really needed to hear that, just that reminder that things take time to grow and that you don't have to take on everything in one day or one moment, that it's a lifetime of work. That piece of wisdom is really impactful for me in where I am in my life right now. So that was my big takeaway. How about you?
Amy: Yay. Yeah, I loved that one. I loved how Julia spoke about being in process in the messy mess of it all, and like, that being okay, and just kind of leaning in and trusting that you're on the right path. I also just want to acknowledge for the two of us - like, going into this, we didn't really know a lot about puppetry or the puppetry community, and I'm so excited that we got to learn all about that. And hopefully, you learned some interesting things too, listeners.
I was particularly taken with the idea of: How do we document the historical aspect of puppetry? Like, the importance of having that archival record, and then the logistics of having that when you're talking about puppets. I found that so interesting and something I'd never thought of before, so that was really exciting for me to dive into that with Julia.
Hayley: I think also, that authentic community building… There was so much good stuff in here. And boundary setting, and not knowing where your path is leading, but that you can use pieces of your other passions and past lives. I know that that's true for you, Amy, with the work that you're doing with your abortion piece. And I think that that's true for a lot of people. That the work that we do in our past lives can inform the art that we do and our hobbies and the other things that we find joy in. That's such a delightful thing that makes us special.
Amy: I truly believe that no time is wasted. Every experience that we have is a learning opportunity, and it will come back in our lives. Who knows how? But it's always really exciting for me to see something from a past life of mine coming back up.
So shall we talk Trailblazers of the Week?
Hayley: Let's do it.
Amy: Hayey, who's your Trailblazer of the Week?
Hayley: My trailblazer of the week is Cole Escola. I had the delight of getting to see Oh, Mary! this week right before the Tony Awards. As a queer girlie myself, I just gotta shout them out. It's Pride month, everybody. So like, here we are. I'm just very excited for Cole. They're a trailblazer in the sense that they're the first Leading Actor in a Play category who is non-binary. That's really exciting for the community. But like, they're just somebody who is so authentically themselves in who they are and what they're creating. I've never laughed so hard at the theatre, and I've never seen anything that feels so authentically itself in that particular way.
And we love to see comedy winning big. Especially at these award shows, there's so much respect for, like, the prestige dramas I think Sam Pinkleton said it in his speech, but something that's just bringing joy to so many people. We talk a lot on this podcast about how joy is radical, and I just think Cole is a living, breathing representation of that. And so like, slay, honey. I love it. That's my Trailblazer of the Week. Who's your Trailblazer of the Week?
Amy: So my Trailblazers this week are the Nagoski sisters, Emily and Amelia Nagoski. I'm actually almost done reading their book Burnout right now, which came out back in 2020. It's a fabulous deep dive into the science behind stress cycles and taking care of our bodies and recovery. And - not like hip, trendy self-care, but like actual self-care, like the actual things that we need to do to care for our bodies in the world and to process all the things going on in our lives.
I've been really enjoying the book, I've been learning a whole bunch. One thing that I appreciate about their writing is - so, they're sisters and they bring really different perspectives to the writing, which is really enjoyable and fun. And they also have a number of other things that they've done aside from this book. I'm like, at the very beginning, tiptoeing into fangirling on them. So I'm excited to see how that fan girldom continues to grow and flourish. But for right now, I'm really enjoying Burnout, and I highly recommend it to all of you listeners.
Hayley: Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, well, Amy, I think it's about time that we hype each other up here. So I wanna hype you up today, because I know that you are juggling many, many, many, many, many, many things in your personal life and in your professional life and in your creative life, and all of the many things. And I just wanna say that I see you, and you are doing great. And it can be really hard to be a person that people lean on in all of those different spaces, and I think that you are navigating that with grace. So that's my hype for you today.
Amy: Thank you, I appreciate it. Well, I - as you know - have been deep in editing some of the interviews for this season, and I wanna hype you up 'cause I'm always so delighted when I'm editing the interviews to hear how you're showing up in them. I'm just like, “Oh yeah, wow. Hayley sounds really smart. Like, Hayley made a really good point there.” And I just so appreciate going on this journey with you and having your wisdom in these interviews and your questions and your curiosity. It's really delightful. So there's my Hype Girl hour for you, my friend.
Hayley: Thank you. I appreciate that. And I wanna hype you up, listeners, because it's been a wacky girl time this summer, and I hope that you're all taking good care of yourselves in this moment, in the world that we're in, and making really good art and showing up fully for yourself today.
Amy: Yeah, go hype up the people you love. Tell them what you love about them.
(Music)
Hayley: Thank you for listening to the Women & Theatre Podcast. We’re your hosts, Hayley Goldenberg…
Amy: …and Amy Andrews! If you like what you heard, subscribe and give us a 5-star review wherever you listen.
Hayley: You can also follow us on social @womenandtheatreproject to make sure you never miss an episode.
Amy: The music for this show was written by talented Women & Theatre community member Chloe Geller.
Hayley: Thanks again for listening, everyone. See you next time!
Amy: Bye!
